Monday, November 17, 2008

Dear Mormons

What do Mormons and gays have in common with exploding burmese pythons? Why, for that you must read on!

There were two noteworthy headlines in the paper this past week: "Mormons Tipped the Scales in Ban on Proposition 8". According to the New York Times, Mormons raised $5 million in a matter of days, right before the measure to outlaw gay marriage in California, thereby tipping the scales and defeating those sexual deviants by a hair!

In an equally explosive national moment, a Burmese python in Florida recently ingested an alligator, and then blew up. Biologists suspect the alligator may have chewed the python's stomach from the inside, causing it to burst.

So I don't want to rehash tired explanations for why gay people should have the same legal right as the rest of us. I don't want to remind the Mormons that church and state are meant to be separate in our country and that it serves them well that this is so. I don't want to remind the Mormons that not so long ago (and currently, in certain Fundamentalist polygamist quarters) they had a pretty funky take on marriage themselves, so it seems a bit rich to be getting so peppery over a union involving two people who just want a decent tax break and a committed monogamous partnership. I don't want to irk my Mormon readers by once again making fun of Mountain Dew, invoking the name of John Krakauer, and otherwise being saucy. I mean, I wouldn't want to seem intolerant. Because, you know, we all have our rights—as everyone reminds me whenever I get cheeky about theirs.

Except that some of us still don't have those rights. And the thing of it is, Mormons and everyone else against gay marriage, you are not going to win this war for long. Sooner or later when you try to swallow the alligator it will be too big and too aggressive and you will damage yourselves instead.

So, why not be smart and skip to the punch line? Let gay people get married. Letting them get married doesn't have to reflect on your own marriages, Mormons, just as Warren Jeffs and his child bride unions don't represent mainstream Mormon marriage—a point you are understandably eager to reiterate whenever the subject comes up. Saying yes to gay marriage doesn't make you deviant and queer and gay and stuff. Unless you're already gay and are just hiding it in your heterosexual church-ordained union. As one gay protester said, "We can't all marry Liza Minelli." The point is, you don't have to believe in gay marriage any more than I as an atheist believe in the angel of Moroni. Nor do you have to like it. But as Americans in search of tolerance yourselves, you have more in common with these other Americans than you think. "Momo" and "homo": see? You even rhyme with each other!

The bottom line, Mormon church, is that you're fighting a losing battle because California will eventually sanction gay marriage, and one day your children and/or their children will see nothing wrong with giving legal rights to all members of our society because my children and their children will be at school with yours. So, why not be pragmatic? Be the Christians who don't have to blow up over this issue. Be nice to the alligator, for he shall rise from the swamp again. And as we all know, it's never smart to bite off more than you can chew. Linkp.s. On a chirpier note, go to the bloglet today for incredibly swanky and festive and cheap-ass Thanksgiving delights. It's recession-fabulous! (Gwyneth Paltrow, take note: if GOOP sourced me a set of letter-pressed funkalicious Thanksgiving place cards for $3, I'd be digging you too.)

21 comments:

The Boss of You said...

The problem, of course, is that the gay marriage issue is completely anathema to the Mormon cosmology. They are very wedded to their afterlife existence and 'the gay' doesn't fit in. PBS did a very good two part documentary that did address this part of their philosophy.

While you could respond by saying this doesn't belong in the public forum, the devout would think pish-posh we baptize Holocaust victims because ours is the only way. It's quite intractable to those who think this is the only way.

All that said, they folded on polygamy and on racism, so maybe a prophet will have a revelation and this will all be settled, but I doubt it.

tonypark said...

We had dinner with friends in Hazyview, near the Kruger Park the other day and learned that gay men have been "popping out" (South African for coming out) all over the lowveld in the last few years.

The un-banning of homosexuality was the start, but the legalisation of gay marriage in Seth Africa led to even more men emerging like the proverbial alligator from the python, according to our friends.

This is a good thing, though this new found tolerance has had some unfortunate side effects. For example, burly hetero Afrikaner men now think it is socially acceptable to wear mauve plastic clogs with holes in them.

bklynmom said...

this is why I keep coming back for more crabmommy - not only do you shed a whole new beam of light on the whole sad "opposition to prop 8" debate but you throw in an exploding python and a photo of it that I doubt I will forget. thanks for taking my brain to places that momdom most certainly as not going to take it today. x

Marsha Keeffer said...

Thank you for your sane, compassionate, authentic voice, Crabmommy. Religious folks would do well to remember that gay kids get raised (for the most part) by straight families. Then when they come out, they're suddenly viewed as 'different, sinful, etc.'

It just ain't so. Everyone deserves the right to marry. After domestic partnership and two marriages in CA, that should be enough for me to keep my relationship 'legal.' But now - well, who knows? That's OK, if necessary, marriage #3 here I come.

Page Posse said...

1. Mormons make up less than 2% of the population of California. There are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 34 million.
2. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of the total Proposition 8 vote.
3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign. Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating.
4. The No on 8 campaign raised more money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38 million and Yes on 8 at $32 million, making it the most expensive non-presidential election in the country.
5. Advertising messages for the Yes on 8 campaign are based on case law and real-life situations. The No on 8 supporters have insisted that the Yes on 8 messaging is based on lies. Every Yes on 8 claim is supported.
6. The majority of our friends and neighbors voted Yes on 8. Los Angeles County voted in favor of Yes on 8. Ventura County voted in favor of Yes on 8.
7. African Americans overwhelmingly supported Yes on 8. Exit polls show that 70% of Black voters chose Yes on 8. This was interesting because the majority of these voters voted for President-elect Obama. No on 8 supporters had assumed that Obama voters would vote No on 8.
8. The majority of Latino voters voted Yes on 8. Exit polls show that the majority of Latinos supported Yes on 8 and cited religious beliefs (assumed to be primarily Catholic).
9. The Yes on 8 coalition was a broad spectrum of religious organizations. Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Muslims - all supported Yes on 8. It is estimated that there are 10 million Catholics and 10 million Protestants in California. Mormons were a tiny fraction of the population represented by Yes on 8 coalition members.
10. Not all Mormons voted in favor of Proposition 8. Our faith accords that each person be allowed to choose for him or her self. Church leaders have asked members to treat other members with "civility, respect and love," despite their differing views.
11. The Church did not violate the principal of separation of church and state. This principle is derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, although it has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court in recent years. The LDS Church is under no obligation to refrain from participating in the political process, to the extent permitted by law. U.S. election law is very clear that Churches may not endorse candidates, but may support issues. The Church has always been very careful on this matter and occasionally (not often) chooses to support causes that it feels to be of a moral nature.
12. Supporters of Proposition 8 did exactly what the Constitution provides for all citizens: they exercised their First Amendment rights to speak out on an issue that concerned them, make contributions to a cause that they support, and then vote in the regular electoral process. For the most part, this seems to have been done in an open, fair, and civil way. Opponents of 8 have accused supporters of being bigots, liars, and worse. The fact is, we simply did what Americans do - we spoke up, we campaigned, and we voted.

crabmommy said...

Hi Page,
the reason I singled out Mormons is the same reason everyone else is singling you guys out on this one: as an institution, the LDS church was able to play "an extraordinary role" (As the NY Times put it) in stamping out the California gay marriage measure. And while the actual Mormon Californian vote may have made up the marginal percentages you quoted, it is clear the LDS church campaign to pass Proposition 8 was an extensive one, reaching all around the nation and dipping deep into those big LDS pockets to the tune of $5 million in just a matter of days towards the end. Also, as the Times says:

"[a] strategist with Protect Marriage estimated that Mormons made up 80 percent to 90 percent of the early volunteers who walked door-to-door in election precincts."

So, yes, while you are right to point out that bunch of other Christians and religious/ethnic groups were equally keen to shoot down the right to marriage for gay people, that doesn't minimize the role of the Mormon church in doing the same, only--it is contended--with more power, money, and influence behind it.

It is almost funny that a religion that has historical ties to polygamy is so keen to sound out on others' hopes for monogamous unions. Yes, you have the right to free speech, but so do I and I think it's appalling that equal rights of a legal nature are not extended to all Americans, regardless of sexual orientation.

You made the point that not all Mormons voted against gay marriage. Indeed I am very heartened to have found websites like Mormonsformarriage.com, though I was shocked and saddened by a post on this website concerning the suicide of devout celibate Mormon (and homosexual) Stuart Matis. In the post entitled "I'd rather be dead" we non-LDS learn much about the Mormon church's inability to reconcile with the idea that some in their flock are gay. Stuart Matis was clearly a brilliant and soulful man. What a shame that he--and subsequently one of his gay LDS friends-- felt he could not live with it. Here are a few words from a letter he wrote to his cousin about the Church he had spent hsi whole life serving:

"Straight members have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up gay in this Church. It is a life of constant torment, self-hatred and internalized homophobia….The Church has no idea that as I type this letter, there are surely boys and girls on their calloused knees imploring God to free them from this pain."

Thing is, it's only a matter of time before gay marriage is legalized in this country as in any civilized nation (like South Africa, historically the worst offender of civil rights and currently the place where my gay cousin was legally wedded to his partner surrounded by our Christian relatives, no less!). Until churches--LDS or whatever kind--accept gay marriage, they will simply be waging a war against time and history. If the Mormon church wants to continue to spread all its sacred stuff about Nephi and Nauvoo and whatnot, I think it would be smart and sanguine to take a calculated look at the gay marriage thing and step back. Maybe a prophet will reveal a timely message to will it so; maybe not. But gay marriage will happen whether Mormons are down with it or not--that's one thing this atheist does believe.

spyderkl said...

That was wonderful. I would say "me, too" to all the other commenters, but I probably shouldn't.

I will say that some of it feels like spite from the Mormons: if they can't have 6 wives, my ex can't have 1. And that is more wrong than I can possibly say.

The 'gator and the python made me smile. Thank you.

Carolyn said...

Someone enlighten me as to what the LDS church as an organization (not your homophobic neighbor you know who happens to be mormon) has done to show hatred toward gay marriage (which is what is being blasted all over by protesters and media outlets). Opposition: yes. Hatred: absolutely not.

It seems to me to be the protesters who have posted all sorts of hateful rage against a group who took a big stand for what they believe in, and why not...as american citizens who are members of the LDS faith, that is their right (regardless of the size of their debatable influence).

The hatred and intolerance is perpetuated by the protesters of 'yes on prop 8', who rightfully have the same privilege to rally together and speak their voice, but instead have waged a violent war of sorts.

Like homosexuals, the mormon church is no stranger to discrimination by society. Its memebers are well acquainted with those who oppose their stance of issues that are core in their lives. People love to throw out the same hackneyed comments about poligamy. Which when we look back at that, the Mormons (unlike vote NO protesters now) were not the source of the hatred or violence, rather the targets of hate crimes.

Liberals say how intolerant they are of war, yet they turn around and wage one against their 'neighbor'. People try and prove the intolerance of Mormons...yet they have been persecuting those same Mormons for generations (The Mormons, in neither instance having been the ones spreading hatred.)

I wish people would take a good look around at the radical acts of these protesting riots, realize the hypocrisy and manipulation of the issue to make the LDS church the villain.

crabmommy said...

Carolyn,
I never used the word "hatred" in my post about Mormons. Your preferred word is "opposition" and that works fine with me. It doesn't change my message, nor does it change yours. But for the record, I'm not interested in or a proponent of violent crimes and so-called "hate" crimes. I am talking about people wanting to live their lives unimpeded by the religious mores of others. Indeed, the LDS church knows a thing or two about persecution and about having its practices shunned by mainstream America, but this does not stop it from doing the same to others. If you read my last comment (and take a look at the website linking to Mormons who believe in gay marriage) you will find ample evidence to suggest that gay people--both Mormon and non-Mormon--feel persecuted by the LDS church, and in the case of Stuart Matis were made to feel they should hate themselves for having feelings they couldn't control. Stuart Matis is not the only homosexual Mormon to commit suicide. Nor is he the only homosexual Christian. Taking the word "hatred" out of the argument: where is the love, Christians?

I find it interesting that you call the Mormon influence in proposition 8 "debatable" but in the same line you say Mormons took "a big stand." Yes they did. They took a stand against something that conflicts with their beliefs and they played a major role. So next time a Mormon feels compelled to stand up for his/her beliefs against those who would threaten his/her basic rights and freedoms, said Mormon might do well to remember the words "Do unto others..."

Carolyn said...

Crabmommy-

I feel as a mormon somewhat on the fence on the issue, i chose your blog [which i read all the time and thoroughly enjoy] a place to point out this unsettling violence simply because you happened to bring it up. Surely you can not turn a blind eye to this just as i cannot act like the LDS church doesn't have gay people who struggle within its teachings.

I can freely gather that violence is not something you condone. However the goal of my comment was to point out the behavior of a side you are aligning your views with to you and to so many of your readers whose commentaries display just how easily they take your vehement words as if you were Oprah (simply because they had no prior opinion).

Please be aware that even if you haven't used the word 'mormons are haters' in your post, whether you like it or not, your stance still places you on the side of the fence of the those who have been defiling LDS places of worship and rioting with physical brutality (Just as unfortunately, my stance places me with the self-righteous religious craZies that also exist in this world). Such images circulating show that many protesters that do think that Mormons HATE gays (or brainwash gays to hate themselves), and that is simply not so. The mormon church took a big stand yes. However with the magnitude of non mormon 'yes' voters, i think the weight of it is debatable (but whatev on that anyway).

My heart breaks for anyone who ends their life for feeling unaccepted in this challenging life (to say the least). However, with such a heavy circumstance and huge internal tragedy I can hardly feel like it could be so firmly attached to one variable.

I have no doubt that this discussion could go on forever and ever. I love that you take your own stands on such a wide variety of things. Continue to do so. And i promise, as this is your blog after all, I will respectfully give you the last word.

Anonymous said...

The LDS as a church may not have given money to the cause (although I'm not sure the gigantic angel Moroni is a errmm, useful investment of church tithes), but they do have a stance on homosexuality. I should know, I spent my childhood and teenage Sundays at church (and Thursday night, Youth activities), my summers at Girls Camp, Youth Conference, and EFY. Oh, and let's not forget Family Home Evening on mondays.

I remember reading about the young man who committed suicide. Because I decided to come out to my mother and be honest with people after reading an article about him.

It is noteworthy that the church issues a statement (http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/church-responds-to-same-sex-marriage-votes#continued) subtly urging its members to use their rights and respond to this "emotionally charged issue". The official LDS website issues a statement in a related article: "As the Proposition 8 campaign in support of traditional marriage enters its last two weeks, the Protect Marriage Coalition is encouraging its members to make phone calls in support of the measure. The Church is participating with the Coalition in support of this endeavor."

They even urged citizens in different states to call voters in California. "Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are California citizens currently living out of the state are being organized to make phone calls in support of Proposition 8, if needed."

That's political spam. It's better than robo-calling, but it's still a meddlesome activity to engage its members in out of state political affairs.

I was raised to be "in the world and not of it". I was also raised to be tolerant and to "love one another". The church needn't "put its shoulder to the wheel and push along" their own agenda, even if it isn't funding it.

Other churches do it too, but that doesn't make it right. Two wrongs if you ask me.

The Boss of You said...

Page and Carolyn protest too much. It is documented that the Mormon community (church and worshipers combined) played a huge role in Prop 8. I read an article about a Mormon California family of six contributing $50K of their savings to the cause on the recommendation of the church and this is not some anomaly. There was a leaked memo between elders from eleven years ago about how to press this agenda. Your community chose to make a stand in the political arena -- as we are a democracy we get to judge, condemn, and protest that action. As a writer in my area said, if McDonald's had been as involved then there'd be protests outside the golden arches. Oh well. Your defensiveness is pathetic.

Galatians 5:22-24 said...

Can I just shout out an "amen" on the record? Having grown up in the Mormon church (well, we left before I was of mandatory baptism age), and my dad having been way more involved in the political side than most members even know exists (secret cia crap, you wouldn't believe it if I told you, and then I'd have to kill you anyway), I know a little about the dark side and the real agendas that 90% of the members have no clue about. (some freaky shit goes on behind locked temple doors) It's sad to hear them defend this beast that is using them to fuel their VERY political (more than religious, actually) agenda.

I agree with Carolin's statement that to stand up and say that you are a member of any group automatically affiliates you with the nut jobs in said group. But that's just life. For petesake, it's no different than some of us using our last names! I am a deeply "religious", conservative Christian (Presbyterian by choice, not by upbringing) and what I can't believe about my fellow (cringe) Christians (Mormons are not, by the way Christians, according to the true definition) and religious "stand-takers" is that they are acting in opposition to how Scripture tells us to behave. Sweepingly. Unbelievably. Who the hell cares what I think about what someone is doing in their bedrooms?! I am allowed to be bothered by it and they are allowed to do it. No, NO, no, no, no... we are not supposed to take rights away, to be violent toward each other, to slander and judge and condemn, and (yes, I am saying it) legislate. (I forgot, was Jesus a lobbyist!?) But not so much because it goes against this country's (obvious) provisions for civil rights, but because it is not how God treats us (if we are to believe we are called to a higher authority, that is)! Why haven't I heard about that?! What am I missing here?

I, personally am more upset by how the Church deals with heterosexual marriage within the Church. Why not start there, Mormons and Focus on the Family... FOCUS ON THE FAMILY!!!!?! Put some of that money and energy into supporting families in your own communities and start focusing on the real things that are threatening our marriages! Set a loving example and let God draw people to the Truth, rather than restricting and shaming people against the sin you see... if you really believe God has that kind of power. Donuts to dollars very few of the people coming out to vote yes on 8 were in perfect, God-honoring holy covenants themselves. It's a wonder they didn't all trip over the logs in their eyes on their way to the polls.

*sigh*

Thanks, had to say it. Had to. Just know that the loudest ones don't speak for all of us. I am ashamed of my "brothers" and unfortunately even my weird-ass parents too who ironically jumped on the bandwagon right with the church that they excommunicated from our family... (because of my dad's status in the church, the LDS powers that be refused to excommunicate or even release him, so my rebel dad sent them a letter of excommunication)

I love reading your pithy posts, and I agree with you wholeheartedly almost always, even when I have radically different personal beliefs about myself, God and even the general population. Does that make sense?

Above all, we Christians are supposed to follow the Bible, right? Well, God is pretty clear about what is right and wrong, but not because he's mean and doesn't want us to have any fun (or freedom). It's more of "this is how I made you, this is how you're going to work the best, so do it this way because I love you". That's what I believe, and it is ABSOLUTELY what Scripture tells the Church. I can't speak for Moroni and the gang. They seem to change their minds a lot anyway. I just really truly believe that if things were run the way God tells us to behave (us, meaning those of us who claim to be his followers) nobody would have anything to complain about... gays, Mormons, pythons and even Crabmommys. Because God is not a bigot.

But I guess I'd miss the pith.

xo,
incognito

Carolyn said...

Soooo, the more sarcastic and resentful your comment, the more right you are??

You win in that boat my friend. How "true" christian of you.

Anonymous said...

Question: "What does the Bible say about gay marriage / same sex marriage?"

Answer: Before we look at gay marriage / same sex marriage, first we have to remember what the Bible says about homosexuality. While the Bible doesn’t address the concept of gay or same sex marriage, the Bible does clearly and consistently tell us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). God does not create a person with homosexual desires. A person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of his or her own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving in to their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not. The same is true for homosexuality.

We also have to remember that homosexuality is just as forgivable a sin as all other sins. God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, liar, proud man, etc. God’s love and desire to save extends to homosexuals (John 3:16; Romans 5:8). God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

To give sanction to homosexual marriage would be to give approval to that lifestyle, which the Bible clearly and consistently condemns as sinful. I believe that Christians should stand firmly against the idea of gay marriage / same sex marriage. Marriage is ordained by God to be between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6). Homosexual marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an offense to the God who created marriage. God forbids and condemns homosexuality, so He clearly is opposed to homosexual marriage. As Christians, we are to seek to share the love of God and salvation through Christ with homosexuals. We are to be loving and kind to homosexuals, while at the same time not condoning their sinful lifestyle.

On that note...It would be very hard to even argue any religious point "Mormon" vs. "true Christian" (also not a very "christian like" thing to say...) vs. Athiest, on this matter. I feel that this article explains it very clear as to why so many people voted against gay marriage. I(settle down...not Mormon, yikes "vultures")simply voted...like it or not, it passed. I would like to point out in you clever picture, that both the Pithon AND the Croc died in the end...so what does that mean...well in the end it IS up to God to Judge not us. And if you don't believe in God (Crabmommy-perfect name for you by the way)then I will pray for you...

Crabmommy said...

Hi most recent anonymous!
I'm glad you like my web moniker--thank you! Yes, Crabmommy is a perfect name for me. I take your endorsement as a compliment.
But please, for the love of Joseph Smith, don't pray for me as you threaten to do. It is you I'm thinking about here. Praying for Crabmommy is a TOTAL waste of your time. She is SO beyond saving at this point!

Anyhoo, I skipped through your Bible-bashing part since to those of us who don't believe in it, it's arguments do not resonate with or reflect upon the problems at hand. I was, however, a tad bummed to see you'd found the hole in my analogy. Yes, that poor alligator did die! I was hoping no one would notice that. I was hoping instead you'd focus on the fact that it's very very silly for a python to try and swallow an alligator. And leave it at that. Also, who knows: maybe next time the alligator will get away...

Anonymous said...

That's too bad that as you use your blog as your own personal "soap box" you choose to glaze over your reader's responses. I guess that would explain my confusion as to why none of your previous responses (to the "opposing" readers) never really made sense to me. I would like to say that "bible bashing" is just a rude, defensive way of describing someone who tries to push their religious views on someone. Now,IF you were to have actually read my FULL post, you would have noticed that a lot of it actually agrees with you and your other "devotees" arguments (but from a general religious perspective), and that it absolutely was not trying to persuade you to think otherwise, but very much so "reflects upon the problem at hand" because...it's the other side to the argument (gay marriage)...Also if you would have read my full post, you would have seen that I am not Mormon, so for "the love of Joseph Smith" comment was...weird...But curious, why are you so fixated on making this a Mormon bashing thing? Just wondering? And while we are on this huge topic, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the trans-gender man having a baby?



"Anyhoo" as long as we are analyzing this famous "Python" picture to death...They are both two, very strong, powerful reptiles. We can hardly call either one of them "poor" little anythings...So lets leave it at that. And no one is TOO far gone (that too is explained in my "bible bashing" post ;)

crabmommy said...

Anon (I do wish the anons would at least pick a code name or something):

The reason I skimmed your argument is that it started with these words:

"...Before we look at gay marriage / same sex marriage, first we have to remember what the Bible says about homosexuality. While the Bible doesn’t address the concept of gay or same sex marriage, the Bible does clearly and consistently tell us that homosexual activity is a sin."

There is absolutely nothing enlightening or interesting for non-Christians in arguments derived from the Bible and yes--I know you're explaining it to me for the sake of argument, but I don't need the explanations; they are obvious.

Even though I skimmed, I got your bit about being "kind" and "loving" to homosexuals in spite of their "sinful" lifestyle. But that does nothing to soften/mitigate the Bible's [to me] ridiculous words offered as some text we all need to scrutinize as though ti were our nation's constitution.

Look, we all KNOW why the Christians/Mormons who voted Yes voted as such. We all know the Church sees homosexual unions as sinful. The claptrap you tell me about "perversion" is nothing new. So if I skim lines like "God does not create a person with homosexual desires. A person becomes a homosexual because of sin" it's because a) I've heard them before b) they're offensive to me and c) they come as they do from a book I don't believe in.

I think you missed the point of my post--and yes, I use my blog as a soapbox; that's what blogs are (though I will respond intelligently to intelligent detractors of my posts, like Carolyn). Here's my key point: you don't have to like/sanction/believe in/ordain in your wacko churches the notion of gay marriage to step away from standing in the way of others' rights. we live in a democracy. Church and state are separate issues in our county. Keep your church out of the legal rights of others and your church might be better poised to move forward into the 21st century. I was actually being nice to the Mormons in this post, offering my sage words freely so as to help them continue to thrive. If Mormons chose to be the one major religion that ignored such matters as Prop 8, it might make Mormons seem more tolerant than they even are (they should be tolerant, knowing what it feels like to be stigmatized). And if the Mormon church left these poor Californian gay couples alone, heathens like me might be less inclined to make fun of the angel of Moroni.

As for the Thomas Beattie "pregnant man" ref: I'm happy to air (and make fun of) my own prudishness in posts such as the "Gender-Blender" one you're referring to. I am not afraid to speak of my weaknesses and the biases that lurk within me, which spring up unbidden when one becomes a parent, a role that challenged my notions of my own "liberalism." Back to T. Beattie, even if I thought "he" shouldn't procreate (and I don't feel this way) I would never put my half-baked socialized ideas onto anyone else and prevent them from having basic rights. I am so glad he gets to live his life on his own terms. More power to him. He seems like a great guy. Though, man, he was a cute, cute girl.

Laura said...

anon...
i would like to know what you were doing on the computer on the true day of rest, as it is clearly identified in your holy and inerrant, word of god, bible????

SINNER!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to propose Prop 9, that all people, gay or straight or anything in between must not post gibberish...especially on the sabbath.

Modern Mommy said...

Dear Crabmommy! I have crawled out of obscurity to drop you a little note. How I have missed you! As you and your impressively articulate readers know, Modern Mommy is in fact a closet Latter Day Saint. Normal, smart, humorous, Christian (yes Virginia, there is a Lord and Savior) sacrilegious, irreverent, Hannah Montana loving sometimes "recovering" Mormon. I am also a democrat. I am a Gemini and I love long walks along the Salt Lake and enjoy quiet evenings with my sister wives. I know this country is true and I am assured by your blog that free speech is alive, well and hilarious. I am shakin' things up over at Modern Mommy (a little remodeling) looking forward to sharing cyberspace with you again - loving you as ever!

Adrienne said...

Fantastic!